Welcome to the course blog for Engl 206/CWL 257: Enlightenment Literature and Culture!
Friday, February 18, 2011
For Credit: Final Thoughts on The Story of the Stone?
Feel free to post here if there is anything you would have like to ask, learn, observe, or consider regarding The Story of the Stone, and didn't have a chance to say in class.
I was shocked that Bao-yu was able to recover from such a devistating situation. The woman he was in love with died, the other woman manipulated him into marrying her, and his family lied to him about the wedding. He was able to get past all of that and be content with life once again. I found that a little suprising as well. I thought that he would commit suicide and that the story would have a tragic ending. Someone had stated in class that everything ended up all right, it might not have ended how everyone wanted it to, but alas the story ended on a lighter note.
The story took some thought because it is not what we usually read in 21st century America, but I loved how real the characters were and I loved how much thought went into making them into people. It is not a fairy tale but it is a love story and the situations that were created in the pieces that we read, like Bao-Chai being told in no uncertain terms by her elders to lie to Bao-yu, and Dai-yu dying, only served to bring the story to life. It is a bittersweet ending but it is also a happy ending and that is more than many novels today can say. The art of the writing is perhaps the most striking thing about this story, it is not simply a story for a happy ending and it does not follow that conventions that we are accustomed to but it has its own perspective and it conveys that without ever showing you what it intends to do in the end.
In class, the question came up as to how Bao-chai might have been able to gain more sympathy as a character than we as a class gave her. I find that, in the end, I had a great deal of sympathy for her character. She did seem to love Bao-yu and that love remained unfaltering despite his pining away for love of another woman. My 21st century perspective;however, balks at feeling completely sympathetic for her because she did agree to manipulate Bao-yu into marrying her. I found myself thinking that had the story been different, had Dai-yu died, Bao-yu pined, and Bao-chai not conived with his family to trick him into marriage I would be far more impressed by the depth of her affections. It seems that to trick him into marriage shows incredible lack of consideration for the feelings of the man she claimed to care for. If she had not tricked him into the marriage, but continued to care for him, then perhaps Bao-yu might have married her willingly. To me, that ending would have been both happier, and more sympathetic in the case of Bao-chai. This would require re-writing the entire ending of the story, but in my opinion, Bao-chai would come off better for the alteration.
This story was very interesting to me. One important aspect that made it this way was the authors way to set up the storyline and conflict. I didn't expect for the main love interest to die or for him to eventually settle for Bao-chai. What I couldn't understand was why Bao-yu after losing his love, settled for Bao-chai, who he neglected. I guess to relates to male dominance in the culure. Bao-chai seems to not have a choice or voice to the way that she feels about being rejected, apart of a trick, and eventually accepted by Bao-yu. As I have learned in the past couple of readings, the male figure either is praised or paid little attention to in regards to mistreating a female. The stories that were developed during the Enlightenment period reflects this through their stories.
One question I have concerning the Story of the Stone lies near the beginning when the Taoist and Buddhist monk first find and carry off the stone. I realize this sets up the story itself, as the Stone had to live the story so Vanitas could pass it on, but what was the point of the confusion concerning the Monk and the Taoist? When they are talking to Shen-Tu at the beginning (in the Land of Illusion), Shen-Tu shows them great respect and humility. However, after Shen-Tu wakes up, he is greeted by the same duo (who asked him to remember them) and blows them off.
Now, I realize that the two seemed like maniacs in the real world, and Shen-Tu's reaction isn't unfounded, my question is what was the point of that set up? I know we're reading excerpts and aren't getting the full impact of the story, but what does the prophecy of the Monk (who says Shen's daughter will be a great burden) have to do with the Stone? Was this just another thread of the story that the author wanted to add in? Or, does it somehow relate to Bao-yu and the Jia clan?
Everyone in placely the blame solely on Bao Chai, but they don't consider the fact that she may not have had so much a say in the decision. While I do agree that Bao Yu should not have been tricked into marrying Bao Chai and should have had the liberty to pick Dai Yu, instead of ending up with Bao Chai. Bao Yu himself states that he notices the kindness of Bao Chai and transfers some of his love to Bao Chai. Bao Chai is not a bad person it is only the situation that makes her appear that way. I propose an alternative, Grandma Jia is the women that should be looked at, she is a true witch. Grandma works behind the shadows so that she is barely noticeable. In the beginning when Dai Yu came to live with her, she allowed her to live with her, but that changed when during Dai Yu's final moments. As Dai Yu was slowly dying, she did not care much for her anymore. The maids no longer reported on Dai Yu's conditions as they knew that she was not that concern with her anymore. Grandma Jia only like Dai Yu when she was something new, but she grew tired of her and left her to die isolated and alone. When she was considering who Bao Yu should marry she said that Dai Yu's opinions did not matter, it was only problematic if Bao Yu had the same feelings. This also gives a clue to how much influence a women had during this time. Bao Chai may not have been allowed to give her own opinion, Bao Chai just had to accept the head family's member decision.
Being a big fan of happy endings (the types where there are rainbows, unicorns, singing/dancing animals, "happily ever after", maids become princesses, everyone ends up with their true love, etc.), I hated this ending. I know in class we talked about how it was bittersweet- Bao-Yu ends up kind of loving Bao-Chai and getting better, and Bao-Chai ends up being with the man she loves.. but I was rooting for Dai-Yu and Bao-Yu. I was so upset with the way Dai-Yu died (who wants to die spitting blood because you are so heartbroken? Not me.) and the way that the story twisted so that they didn't end up together. At least Bao-Yu eventually gets over it, but I am still sad about it!
I have less respect for Bao-Chai when I learned that she had known about the plan to trick Bao-Yu into marrying her by having him think that he was going to marry Dai-Yu. At first, I did not realize that Bao-Chai was in on the scheme. So I felt sorry that the grandma had not told her about the plan. But since Bao-Chai was willing to go along with the plan and trick her lover into marrying her, I am disappointed in Bao-Yu. She deceived Bao-Yu into marrying her and started their marriage out with a lie. Despite her previous actions, she slightly redeemed herself when she remained by Bao-Yu’s side through his mourning period and recovery.
Although the novel concluded not how I would have originally preferred, it was well-suited. If the novel would have ended with Dai-Yu marrying Bao-Yu, then it would not have been as memorable but more predictable. Instead as readers, we can take away from it that life is messy and often out of our control. However, we can either give up, pout, or make the most of life’s surprises.
8 comments:
I was shocked that Bao-yu was able to recover from such a devistating situation. The woman he was in love with died, the other woman manipulated him into marrying her, and his family lied to him about the wedding. He was able to get past all of that and be content with life once again. I found that a little suprising as well. I thought that he would commit suicide and that the story would have a tragic ending. Someone had stated in class that everything ended up all right, it might not have ended how everyone wanted it to, but alas the story ended on a lighter note.
The story took some thought because it is not what we usually read in 21st century America, but I loved how real the characters were and I loved how much thought went into making them into people. It is not a fairy tale but it is a love story and the situations that were created in the pieces that we read, like Bao-Chai being told in no uncertain terms by her elders to lie to Bao-yu, and Dai-yu dying, only served to bring the story to life. It is a bittersweet ending but it is also a happy ending and that is more than many novels today can say. The art of the writing is perhaps the most striking thing about this story, it is not simply a story for a happy ending and it does not follow that conventions that we are accustomed to but it has its own perspective and it conveys that without ever showing you what it intends to do in the end.
In class, the question came up as to how Bao-chai might have been able to gain more sympathy as a character than we as a class gave her. I find that, in the end, I had a great deal of sympathy for her character. She did seem to love Bao-yu and that love remained unfaltering despite his pining away for love of another woman. My 21st century perspective;however, balks at feeling completely sympathetic for her because she did agree to manipulate Bao-yu into marrying her. I found myself thinking that had the story been different, had Dai-yu died, Bao-yu pined, and Bao-chai not conived with his family to trick him into marriage I would be far more impressed by the depth of her affections. It seems that to trick him into marriage shows incredible lack of consideration for the feelings of the man she claimed to care for. If she had not tricked him into the marriage, but continued to care for him, then perhaps Bao-yu might have married her willingly. To me, that ending would have been both happier, and more sympathetic in the case of Bao-chai. This would require re-writing the entire ending of the story, but in my opinion, Bao-chai would come off better for the alteration.
This story was very interesting to me. One important aspect that made it this way was the authors way to set up the storyline and conflict. I didn't expect for the main love interest to die or for him to eventually settle for Bao-chai. What I couldn't understand was why Bao-yu after losing his love, settled for Bao-chai, who he neglected. I guess to relates to male dominance in the culure. Bao-chai seems to not have a choice or voice to the way that she feels about being rejected, apart of a trick, and eventually accepted by Bao-yu. As I have learned in the past couple of readings, the male figure either is praised or paid little attention to in regards to mistreating a female. The stories that were developed during the Enlightenment period reflects this through their stories.
One question I have concerning the Story of the Stone lies near the beginning when the Taoist and Buddhist monk first find and carry off the stone. I realize this sets up the story itself, as the Stone had to live the story so Vanitas could pass it on, but what was the point of the confusion concerning the Monk and the Taoist? When they are talking to Shen-Tu at the beginning (in the Land of Illusion), Shen-Tu shows them great respect and humility. However, after Shen-Tu wakes up, he is greeted by the same duo (who asked him to remember them) and blows them off.
Now, I realize that the two seemed like maniacs in the real world, and Shen-Tu's reaction isn't unfounded, my question is what was the point of that set up? I know we're reading excerpts and aren't getting the full impact of the story, but what does the prophecy of the Monk (who says Shen's daughter will be a great burden) have to do with the Stone? Was this just another thread of the story that the author wanted to add in? Or, does it somehow relate to Bao-yu and the Jia clan?
Everyone in placely the blame solely on Bao Chai, but they don't consider the fact that she may not have had so much a say in the decision. While I do agree that Bao Yu should not have been tricked into marrying Bao Chai and should have had the liberty to pick Dai Yu, instead of ending up with Bao Chai. Bao Yu himself states that he notices the kindness of Bao Chai and transfers some of his love to Bao Chai. Bao Chai is not a bad person it is only the situation that makes her appear that way. I propose an alternative, Grandma Jia is the women that should be looked at, she is a true witch. Grandma works behind the shadows so that she is barely noticeable. In the beginning when Dai Yu came to live with her, she allowed her to live with her, but that changed when during Dai Yu's final moments. As Dai Yu was slowly dying, she did not care much for her anymore. The maids no longer reported on Dai Yu's conditions as they knew that she was not that concern with her anymore. Grandma Jia only like Dai Yu when she was something new, but she grew tired of her and left her to die isolated and alone. When she was considering who Bao Yu should marry she said that Dai Yu's opinions did not matter, it was only problematic if Bao Yu had the same feelings. This also gives a clue to how much influence a women had during this time. Bao Chai may not have been allowed to give her own opinion, Bao Chai just had to accept the head family's member decision.
Being a big fan of happy endings (the types where there are rainbows, unicorns, singing/dancing animals, "happily ever after", maids become princesses, everyone ends up with their true love, etc.), I hated this ending. I know in class we talked about how it was bittersweet- Bao-Yu ends up kind of loving Bao-Chai and getting better, and Bao-Chai ends up being with the man she loves.. but I was rooting for Dai-Yu and Bao-Yu. I was so upset with the way Dai-Yu died (who wants to die spitting blood because you are so heartbroken? Not me.) and the way that the story twisted so that they didn't end up together. At least Bao-Yu eventually gets over it, but I am still sad about it!
I have less respect for Bao-Chai when I learned that she had known about the plan to trick Bao-Yu into marrying her by having him think that he was going to marry Dai-Yu. At first, I did not realize that Bao-Chai was in on the scheme. So I felt sorry that the grandma had not told her about the plan. But since Bao-Chai was willing to go along with the plan and trick her lover into marrying her, I am disappointed in Bao-Yu. She deceived Bao-Yu into marrying her and started their marriage out with a lie. Despite her previous actions, she slightly redeemed herself when she remained by Bao-Yu’s side through his mourning period and recovery.
Although the novel concluded not how I would have originally preferred, it was well-suited. If the novel would have ended with Dai-Yu marrying Bao-Yu, then it would not have been as memorable but more predictable. Instead as readers, we can take away from it that life is messy and often out of our control. However, we can either give up, pout, or make the most of life’s surprises.
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