Thursday, April 7, 2011

For Credit: Montagu Follow-Up

Who has more freedom, in Lady Mary Wortley Montagu's opinion: English women like herself or the Turkish women she gets to know? What makes you think so?

Deadine: Friday (4/8), start of class.

8 comments:

SteveL said...

Despite having to wear the veil in public, Montagu probably favors the Turkish women as having more freedom. Turkish women can act under more anonymity, they can have more control in their house (as demonstrated by the pious wife of the vizier), and they have a more welcoming attitude towards women (as stated in the turkish baths). Montagu remarks that English women who seemed as exotic as her in a bath like that would be ridiculed, but the women here gave not so much as a smirk. Also, the women in the baths were not being distinguished by rank, as Montagu notices, showing a blurring of the class lines. Since class lines can affect social status as well as gender, these factors that Montagu writes about show that she thinks the Turkish women have more freedom in their society, and marvels at them because of it.

RLee said...

I also agree with Steve that Montagu sees the Turkish women having more freedom than English women. The bath scene really allows Montagu to see how unrestrained the Turkish women are. They all express comfort while bathing together without giving snide remarks or glances, no ogling and no groping. Montagu seems so tied down by English women's customs and social norms, very similar to how her corset kind of keeps her confined in her own personal space, physically and mentally restrains her from her joining the Turkish women in the bath.

Strangely enough, I was too lazy to fetch my Longman textbook and looked online instead for her letters and came across a letter she wrote to some unnamed countess. I believe this section is not in our books, but this is what I found:

"It is also very pleasant to observe how tenderly he and all his brethren voyage-writers lament the miserable confinement of the Turkish ladies, who are (perhaps) freer than any Ladies in the universe, and are the only women in the world that lead a life of uninterrupted pleasure, exempt from cares, their whole time being spent in visiting, bathing, or the agreeable amusement of spending money and inventing new fashions."

I hope finding this doesn't ruin some people's response to this.

link: http://www.ic.arizona.edu/ic/mcbride/ws200/montltrs.htm

Debbie Rapson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Debbie Rapson said...

In Lady Mary's viewpoint, the Turkish women have more freedom. In her letter in the handout, she says to Lady Mar that "Tis very easy to see they (Turkish ladies) have more liberty than we have, no woman of what rank soever being permitted to go in the streets without two muslins... You may guess how effectually this disguises them, that there is no distinguishing the great lady from her slave, and 'tis impossible for the most jealous husband to know his wife when he meets her, and no man dare either touch or follow a woman in the street. This perpetual masquerade gives them entire liberty of following their inclinations without danger of discovery" (pg 2576-77). She says that because of this, they can have affairs. This is also made possible because they have complete control over their slaves and their husband does not. They can also get divorced and in that way she says they can have their own money that their new husband does not own. It is interesting that today we see having to cover your face and body in public as oppressive, whereas Lady Mary in her time saw it as freeing and protective.

Sarah said...

I would agree that, while there is a bit of a split, ultimately Montagu feels that the Turkish women have more freedom. She goes in as a character of assumed adorned status, but then finds it interesting that the women in Turkish society show each other a certain respect, regardless of status. In the bath house, women were able to expose their entire body, slave and master, and one could not even tell which was which. This show a certain kind of freedom to which Montagu was not so accustomed.

TomP said...

I think LMWM obviously believes that Turkish women have more freedom - but I'm not so sure that she actually sees that as such a great thing.

She's not willing to be nude in the Bath, and actually seems to use her garter as the reason why. She seemed to be okay with the Turkish women believing it was actually LMWM's husband's choice to put her in the corset.

If that's the case then it appears she does believe that Turkish women are more free, but she's clearly uncomfortable in being as free.

Sam Shore said...

It seems pretty clear that Montagu is of the belief that Turkish women have more freedom. As the handout shows, even things which other observers might construe as constricting such as the veil, she praises as an effective tool for women to go about their business unmolested. Such a viewpoint seems undisrupted across all her writings, as noted here on the blog already.

Unknown said...

Lady Mary Wortley Montagu seems to think that the Turkish Women have more freedom than the English women. In the handout on page 2576-2577, she states:

"Tis very easy to see they (Turkish ladies) have more liberty than we have, no woman of what rank soever being permitted to go in the streets without two muslins... You may guess how effectually this disguises them, that there is no distinguishing the great lady from her slave, and 'tis impossible for the most jealous husband to know his wife when he meets her, and no man dare either touch or follow a woman in the street. This perpetual masquerade gives them entire liberty of following their inclinations without danger of discovery"

When stating this to Lady Mar I think that she is expressing that these women (Turkish) are able to have authority over their slaves in comparison the English women don't usually their husbands do.

"They are queens of their slaves, which the husband has no permission so much as to look upon...." I think this is significant in describing how Lady Mary Wortley Montagu feels about the culture.