[Eloisa] has done something wrong and is fearful of the consequences....she wants to use God to escape the situation.
[T]his poem is about Eloisa and not "the lovers."
In her heart she does not want to forget Abelard.
I don't think she wants to be reunited with God...she resents him (if unacknowledged).Respond to this post with evidence from the poem that supports or refutes (kindly and collegially, please!) any one of these provocative claims.
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The idea that Eloisa resents Abelard for his actions never occurred to me, but now that I think about it the idea doesn't seem too far fetched. Eloisa was a young student, and a person could look at the situation and think that Abelard was really just taking advantage of a student.
I originally read line 184, "I mourn the lover, not lament the fault..." as another exclamation of Eloisa's love for Abelard. However, we could view it in a completely different context. Eloisa could be saying that she, as a young woman, does not repent for her falling in love, but rather who she fell in love with. If she had fallen for a man her father had approved of, or for a man she could justify to society, perhaps she wouldn't have ended up in the convent. Maybe, she's angry that her "lover" took advantage of a young woman that hadn't had the experience of love and so could be easily had.
If we read it this way, Eloisa is really just angry at an old man that used her and got off relatively more easily than she did (although if what was said in class is true, and he was castrated with a rope... I guess my point is he didn't really get away unscathed).
I don't agree that line 184 is so easy to turn around. A few lines prior she acknowledges, "Confess'd within the slave of love and man." In the particular couplet, she seems to be referring more to what she "ought to grieve" (183) rather than how she feels about Abelard.
I also think that her dreams strongly suggest that she is still longing for him. If she falls asleep, "Then conscience sleeps, and leaving nature free,/ All my loose soul unbounded springs to thee." (227-8) She grieves waking up (248) and tries to physically hold the Abelard she is dreaming of (238).
When she is contemplating death, she also contemplates Abelard's death. However, she is far from resentful. She says, "In trance ecstatic may thy pangs be drown'd,/Bright clouds descend, and angels watch thee round" (338-9). I think that if I resented someone I certainly wouldn't be wishing them such a painless death or suggesting that my love is like the embrace of a saint (342). This last line even seems to imply that a saint's love isn't quite as good as Eloise's love.
I agree that Eloisa resents God. Originally she tries to replace her love of God for her love of Abelard, “And make my soul quit Abelard for God” (l. 128), but she can’t succeed. Like we mentioned in class, whenever Eloisa tries to think of God who thoughts always return to Abelard, so that eventually she recognizes she thinks Abelard more important and vital than God. When she thinks of the traditions of the Church, “One thought of thee [Abelard] puts all the pomp to flight, / Priests, tapers, temples, swim before my sight” (l. 273-4). Her love for Abelard is a stronger desire than her love of religion. Eventually she proclaims, “Take back my fruitless penitence and pray’rs; / Snatch me, just mounting, from the blest abode; / Assist the fiends, and tear me from my God!” (l. 286-8). Throughout the poem Eloisa tries to resist the pull of her religious education and replace her love of Abelard for God. By the end she realizes that one cannot be a replacement for the other, and she rejects her love for God as a sustainable source of contentment.
- Katie Blair
Throughout the poem Eloisa’s mind is constantly playing tug-of-war between Abelard and religion. Moments where she wishes to use religion and God as a device to save her from the heartbreak she feels over Abelard only to yearn for Abelard again. She even professes how half of her heart still belongs to Abelard “All is not Heav’n’s while Abelard has part, Still rebel nature holds out half my heart”.
Because Eloisa grew up with God emphasized throughout her life, Abelard’s influence confuses her, “too soon they taught me ‘twas no sin to love”… “Not on the Cross my eye were fix’d, but you”. Eloisa professes how her love for Abelard overshadows God. When she finds out that Abelard is castrated and that any hope for a normal life with him are gone she uses God as a tool to forget about Abelard.
I completely agree with the first and second statement. If Eloisa was not in this specific situation she would not look to God as a 'back-up' plan to help repent. Then she discards religion in a sense because she looks toward death. Let's not forget that religion was not an option when her and Abelard was together, they were able to live life and do whatever they pleased. Now, Eloisa is almost caught up in a war between choosing death, Abelard, or religion. I believe an important section that shows that Eloisa is simply choosing between unattractive ends spans from line 257-262 where it says, "Come, Abelard! for what hast thou to dread?/The torch of Venus burns not for the dead./Nature stands check'd; Religion disapproves;/Ev'n thou art cold--yet Eloisa loves./Ah hopeless, lasting flames! like those that burn/To light the dead, and warm th' unfruitful urn." Here, it seems that she identifies that she can not love Abelard no longer because he was castrated. Also the way that religion does not accept the things that she has done, then she ultimately feel that she can not be accepted or be with her Abelard then she seeks death.
I agree with Shaun. If Eloisa resented Abelard, she would not dream of him nor would she wish him a painless death. I do not think she would be thinking of him fondly, like she did in lines 63-68 for example. Although I think the first two comments made excellent points, there is just too much in the poem to "twist" in order to fit the statement that Eloisa resents Abelard.
I don't believe that the poem is only about Eloisa. Sure Eloisa is the one that is confused about her feelings, but this has as much to do with Abelard as it does with her. Toward the end of the poem the Eloisa begins to bring this poem to and end an speak the last words of the message that she wishes for the readers to obtain.
"O'er the pale marble shall they join their heads, And drink the falling tears each other sheds; Then sadly say, with mutual pity mov'd 'Oh may we never live as these have lov'd'" (349-352).
In here she is speaking about two lovers, she is not so self centere that she only cares about her grief, she wants the lovers who see her and Abelard's grave to look at them as an example. Eloisa wishes for the viewer to see them as an example of all of the tragedy that love can bring and that which they suffered, so that they can fix their own relationships so that they may never go through the hardship of being seperated like Abelard and Eloisa. When she expresses her grieve she wants to give the reader a sense of what it feels like for two lovers to be seperated from each other. Eloisa always stays true to her love for Abelard and wanting to be with him.
"Himself, his throne, his world, I'd scorn 'em all: Not Caesar's empress would I deign to prove; No, make me mistress to the man I love;" (86-88).
In this line and various others Eloisa shows her love towards Abelard and describes a connection that two lovers may have. A lover would give anything and everything to be with the one that they love.
I’m not sure SteveL is “turning around” line 184 when he says, “Eloisa could be saying that she, as a young woman, does not repent for her falling in love, but rather who she fell in love with.”
The opening lines of the stanza are:
Ah wretch! believ'd the spouse of God in vain,
Confess'd within the slave of love and man.
Assist me, Heav'n! but whence arose that pray'r?
Sprung it from piety, or from despair? (lines 177-180).
The closing lines of the stanza are:
Ere such a soul regains its peaceful state,
How often must it love, how often hate!
How often hope, despair, resent, regret,
Conceal, disdain--do all things but forget (lines 197-200).
The lines between the beginning and end are Eloisa’s specific doubts and struggles. She has asked for Heaven’s assistance. It makes sense to me she is beginning to realize love is good; Abelard is not.
I agree with Shaun when he says Eloisa’s “dreams strongly suggest that she is still longing for him,” but I also see her struggling with those dreams and growing beyond those struggles. By the end of the poem, Eloisa has changed and learned how not to “on others' pray'rs depend?” (l 151).
I believe the turning point for Eloisa is when she is visited by the angel or, if you prefer, has the hallucination (lines 303-316). I think she then embraces Heaven’s love and, with that strengthening her spirit, she can honestly wish Abelard, another sinner, good-will.
Her final wish is that someone with “sad similitude of griefs to mine” write her story and, in that way prevent others from sharing her fate (lines 359-360). Note that Eloisa wishes the unknown bard to share her griefs as opposed to the griefs of her and Abelard as lovers.
Lastly, when Eloisa asks "our tender story tell," I think she is speaking not of Abelard and she, but rather the unknown Bard and she.
I wouldn't go as far as saying she "resents God," however, I do see where this person got the idea that she didn't want God over Abelard. Line 128 says "And make my soul quit Abelard for God." This line shows that she doesn't easily accept God over Abelard. She says "quit Abelard for God" which doesn't really show she loves God, just that she knows she needs to do it.
Even though there was evidence to her not readily accepting God, I still argue that she didn't really "resent" him. Line 205-206 points to her accepting God by saying "Fill my heart with God alone, for he alone can rival, can succeed to thee." These lines seem to point to her willing to accept God as another choice to Abelard. Granted it is more likely that she loves Abelard more than God, she still does want religion in her life.
This poem is not about "the lovers", it is about Eloisa. Throughout the poem, Eloisa talks about herself and Abelard but always she speaks of her desire to be with him and her agony at their parting, never does she consider what perspectives the two of them share or what things they differ on. She speaks for herself and herself only, lamenting her need to shed tears and spares no sympathy for Abelard's plight. Her sympathy for him is only mentioned, as it is an extension of her desire to be with him. This is demonstrated in line 7 and 8 “Yet, yet I love! – from Abelard it came, / And Eloisa yet must kiss the name”. This quote focuses not on the lovers but on Eloisa’s part in the pair, it speaks to her perspective and thoughts on the situation not on Abelard or the lovers as a pair.
I support the statement from the fishbowl that said, “In her heart she does not want to forget Abelard.” The memories that Eloisa has of her time with Abelard can be painful, but she would rather have them then not at all. Not remembering is easier. However, the happiness she shared with Abelard is too great to forget. It reminds me of Dr. Seuss’s famous quotation, “Don’t cry because it’s over. Smile because it happened.” Eloisa cannot forget her lover. All she can do now is cherish the time that they spent together. I think in lines 107-110 she questions whether she can forget him. As I read the rest of the poem, I am led to believe that she cannot. If she wanted to forget him, then why would she write a letter to him?
In response to Jay’s comment about her loving Abelard more than God, I think it is likely. I too think that she wants religion in her life no matter what.
At first the last post made me think what is this person thinking? She wants to join the church for most of the poem. Then i tried thinking about what the writer was saying, and they may actually be right. She uses God to try and distract herself from Abelard. One might say that because she really does love Abelard, she might resent her other choice to follow God. It might be a type of only other alternative. Those are not always good and in this case it seems the poster of this comment may have recognized that.
Because I think Eloisa changes during the poem, I sometimes have trouble with the lines people quote to support what they posit. A quote taken from the beginning of the poem will not necessarily support an interpretation of a later line if it is not put into the context of where Eloisa’s thought process was at that moment in the poem. For instance, Eloisa says in the couplet beginning on line 7, “Yet, yet I love!--From Abelard it came/And Eloisa yet must kiss the name.” Does this line tell us how to interpret another couplet from over 300 lines later, “May one kind grave unite each hapless name/And graft my love immortal on thy fame!” (lines 343-344)? In my view, no. On the other hand, if Eloisa has not changed during the poem, where a quote comes from in the poem is less important.
P.S. I must correct an error. On my earlier blog, I wanted to quote the last four lines of a stanza but pasted in the wrong lines. The correct lines are:
203 Oh come! oh teach me nature to subdue,
204 Renounce my love, my life, myself--and you.
205 Fill my fond heart with God alone, for he
206 Alone can rival, can succeed to thee.
I do agree that Eloisa recognizes that she has sinned, and she does seem to fear the consequences of her sins, but I don't think she views God purely as a means of escape. Instead, I think that her internal conflict regarding God has more to do with whether or not, because of her sins, she can ever hope to receive God's forgiveness. Elosia makes reference to what she feels are "fruitless penitence and pray'rs" (ln 286) as if she feels that because she has sinned, God will no longer hear her and will not forgive her. She seems to take some comfort, however, from a voice which tells her "Once like thyself, I trembled, wept, and pray'd,/Love's victim then, though now a sainted maid:/[...]For God, not man, absolves our frailties here" (ll. 311-312, 316). She seems to genuinely be concerned over whether or not she is worthy to be listened to by God, she doesn't seem to view God as merely her only means to escape. This passage suggests that the consequences she fears, are consequences brought down upon her by society, not by God and that therefore, God being the only judge, she should take heart. God is offered as her only source of comfort and peace, not as a mere escape. She wishes to be forgiven by Him, not to use Him.
RJB,
Good point. Thanks.
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